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Ponderosa ([info]ponderosa121) wrote,
@ 2007-08-06 00:42:00


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Entry tags:personal responses

To help stifle the rumour mill
Because I want to make sure incorrent information doesn’t continue being spread, I posted a variation of this to both the Darkside Rainbow blogpost which discusses some details of my suspension and an earlier post on Firefox news. I've edited my remarks slightly for clarity and relevance in posting here.

The image I was suspended for was not a commission for a piece of fanfiction where Harry is stated to be 18+.

The piece of Snape/Harry artwork was posted without “friend’s lock” in a community intended for adults, and similarly in my journal, which is also intended for adults. It was under a “cut” in both places and provided content warning. Unless linked to by a third party elsewhere, in the places where I posted it, a user would need to click on a cut beneath a label with the adult rating (pornish_pixies) or on a cut duplicating the adult rating as listed in the subject line (my personal journal) to view it.

The person who commissioned the artwork from me asked for Snape/Harry, explicit but loving, and left all the details to me. I made no statement of either Snape or Harry's age, and make no statement now. I had no age in mind when drawing Harry other than the recipient of my artwork had previously asked me for a commission (which fell through due to timing) of Harry as a young man and not a teen.

I would like it clear that I make no statement as to whether or not Harry is a minor in this image, and though I question the criteria for my suspension by Six Apart, I accept it without any admission of guilt. My intent was not to draw Harry at a specific age and as he doesn’t exist other than as I rendered him, I cannot ask him if he is 16, 17, 18, 19, or 201 for that matter. I will say, however, that any reference for which I used in the creation of his pose is of a female above the age of 18.



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[info]neplusultra
2007-08-06 00:56 (link)
I've never met you fannishly, but I heard about what happened to you and to other people through [info]vejiita4eva on LJ. You, uh, may not quite share my way of reacting to things like this, but this post is partly inspired by you: http://azarias.livejournal.com/328507.html

The fact that I now have a Greatestjournal is wholly inspired by LJ going insane.

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[info]ponderosa121
2007-08-06 01:04 (link)
With the type of person I've grown into and on top of that my very public position on this, I'm not inclined to be reactionary about this. Something I've learned from people who are close to me is that feeling angry or upset is always valid because we can't control our emotions. It's what we do about feeling them that's important. With that in mind, your using art to protest Six Apart's decision makes me grin and I love it. Rock on. :D

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[info]neplusultra
2007-08-06 01:21 (link)
I'm taking it more personally than I ought to, because once upon a time I was on LJ Abuse, and it feels like these recent acts have made a liar out of me for things I said back when. Also, I'm currently stuck doing customer service to pay the bills, both wise and unwise, and I've developed an eye for crappy customer service. This? This is crappy CS.

The really sad part is that those pictures are about the best art I can manage.

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[info]ponderosa121
2007-08-06 01:38 (link)
Yeah, you know, since I feel pretty solid in my own position, my outrage is entirely for the users who are being majorly dicked around. I mean, I'm fairly open minded and willing to give a person or company a lot of leeway since I know that neither being a person nor running a company is easy, but their continued incompetence is ridiculous.

Hey, if it's lacking in technical merit, it's sure making up for it in artistic and political merit. Plus, stick figures are awesome.

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[info]neplusultra
2007-08-06 01:46 (link)
My main issue is this: that these policy flip-flops are not being presented as responses to the needs of the company. The way 6A announcements have been phrased, this is a moral and legal judgment, not a business decision.

A business decision truly would not offend me. It would suck, and would openly and honestly drive a stake through the heart of the idealism LJ used to espouse, but it would be quick and clean. 6A's in this for money, and any customer who hasn't realized that probably deserves what she gets, at this point. Unfortunately, what we're getting involves lies, patronization, and just plain unprofessional actions. Really, fandom's reactions aren't too hard to predict: someone should have thought of the probably questions and responses before they happened, rather than flailing about clumsily after the fact.

There's a very important difference between a business telling its customers "We've decided that it's bad for business to have content X, Y, and Z on the servers, so it's gone as soon as we find it" and a business telling its customers "Quite a lot of you are pedos, and we won't tell you what makes you pedos, really, but you're quite disgusting and we're going to kick you off because you're pedos. You'll find out you're a pedo when we kick you off." It frustrates me that LJ/6A doesn't seem to see the difference at the moment.

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[info]sermoa
2007-08-06 01:37 (link)
Kudos for saying that. It's good to get the truth out there, and you seem very sensible about it all.

Anyway, i think this has got past debating what age your drawing depicted, and turned into a world-wide wait for Six Apart to get their heads out of their over-sized arses and talk to us!

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[info]ponderosa121
2007-08-06 01:44 (link)
Totally. I just want to make sure that no one is trying to defend me with false information or make it seem in any way that I'm trying to defend myself with an age statement.

And this is how I've felt from the start. I'm an expert at being pissed off on the behalf of others. Like, okay, you've suspended me, LJ, but what about the rest of your users who are suddenly afraid? How do you plan to treat them?

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[info]sermoa
2007-08-06 01:56 (link)
Exactly why i made my bid for freedom on Saturday! I'm not going to hang around to wait and see if my journal gets deleted for loudly disagreeing with Six Apart policies. Now i've got my very own self-hosted and self-controlled blog set up and i'm actually delighted with it! :)

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[info]meredyth_13
2007-08-06 01:57 (link)
I'm just glad to find you here. I was feeling very disheartened by the LJ debacle, but I'm actually starting to feel a tiny sense of adventure - that this is kicking fandom to re-energise, to remember why we're here.

Hang in there, honey - you've done everything you could, and it's their loss at 6A when one of the best fanartists in the business goes elsewhere and takes a fair portion of the fandom base along for the ride.

*hugs*

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[info]lalaith_niniel
2007-08-06 02:37 (link)
Sorry to butt in here, but I was wondering if your icon is gankable?

I love this piece and I asked in 's post last night if it's iconable, but haven't heard back. This is better than I could have done.

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[info]lalaith_niniel
2007-08-06 02:38 (link)
...and apparently GJ's code for names isn't the same as LJ's...must go check on that

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[info]meredyth_13
2007-08-06 03:00 (link)
Thanks! It's my first animated icon - but Lil's art just cries out for iconage, doesn't it?

Yes, you're welcome to use, if you credit Lil and myself. :D

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[info]explosiveness
2007-08-06 03:09 (link)
Thanks, I keep reading the million and one news articles and posts by everyone, and can't seem to find an exact truth anywhere. (Not that we seem to be getting ANY truth from LJ)

Heres to hoping that some form of response is given soon. :)

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[info]ponderosa121
2007-08-06 10:20 (link)
As soon as I started seeing some of the information spread about in those, including the comments, I knew I needed to say something!

Yeah, wow, I would've thought they'd be on the ball with it this morning. Clearly not.

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[info]sildil
2007-08-06 03:40 (link)
Thank you for clarifying the situation. I think that the LACK of age specification in that drawing is itself damning of LJ/6A attitude. Harry is obviously either an older teen or a young man, and while I appreciate that LJ/6A or indeed any organisation should err on the side of caution, to immediately blanket ban and remove a LJ and user on a vague feeling that this sort of might or might not be something that could or could not offend/break the law/send someone into a fit of vapours is what is wrong and why the situation is totally unacceptable.

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[info]ptyx
2007-08-06 03:53 (link)
I admire the way you are handling the situation. You have all my support.

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[info]whatthefuckbenj
2007-08-06 05:05 (link)
It's a shame what LJ's doing with its users these days :(

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[info]machineplay
2007-08-06 05:43 (link)
Great clarification. I'm really sorry you were permanently suspended for this and not given the chance to remove the 'offensive' artwork. My feelings on this are much the same as [info]neplusultra's.

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[info]yankeerose69
2007-08-06 07:16 (link)
I think that's what annoys me the most with not just what happened to you but other ppl's work in general on the characters they draw and what age they should be. They could be 21 yrs old and still look underage. I think it's all on how that person draws or how they want to draw. But it's sad that you have to explain yourself with every piece a person draws on just how old that character is. I think in HP's case, the majority that isn't fandom will always see Harry as that little boy NO MATTER what the artist might say on how old their character is. I begin to worry about other fandoms that isn't HP related and how some of their characters look so young even though they are older and how long before they are targeted too. I don't see too many artists outside of Japan that draw Rukia like some Japanese artist do where she looks totally lolita and it would be questionable just how old she is where in reality, the girl is over 100 yrs old. It's just fucked up how it'd start feeling as if now everyone is going to have to put a warning in their notes stating just how old that character is.

While I think of it, do you think you'd be able to make your journal into an RSS feed? That'd be neat if it is possible cause it'd be easier to follow it than trying to have to remember to tell myself to come back and check.

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[info]ponderosa121
2007-08-06 10:01 (link)
Non-fandom points of view on this I think are interesting. I have no experience walking up to random people and knowing their opinion on HP. A lot of magazines for example though will ask things like "Is Harry Potter legal yet?" and be referring to Dan Radcliffe, where then, clearly a lot of people equate Harry=Dan=Adult.

I think someone has already made a feed of this journal. Anyone with a paid account on LJ can make a feed, I can't do it at this end. Instructions though, are here:

http://stewardess.insanejournal.com/177886.html#cutid1

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[info]yankeerose69
2007-08-06 16:03 (link)
I have no experience walking up to random people and knowing their opinion on HP.

I'm sure ppl I know offline probably only know one thing about HP and that is the books and movies and nothing beyond that.

A lot of magazines for example though will ask things like "Is Harry Potter legal yet?" and be referring to Dan Radcliffe, where then, clearly a lot of people equate Harry=Dan=Adult.

That's another annoyance I have is when ppl can't separate the RL person who played a character in the movie to the character in the book. These are not the same ppl morons!! Dan just so happened to be lucky enough to favor a known character. That's almost as bad as seeing how ppl react to tribute bands or ppl in cosplay acting like these are the real fucking deal. *facepalm*

I know it was only a matter of time again before ppl were going to be targeted in the HP fandom since the new book came out. But it did totally shock me on how quick you were targeted considering how long you've been posting that kind of art. The night it happened, I usually check my flist & profile before I leave work to head home. An hr later when I got home, I saw my flist explode about you being gone and was totally blown away as to how quick they did this to you.

I wish my friend didn't renew my paid account back in March though I'm thinking of telling her not to bother next yr.

LJ just feels so weird now, the atmosphere is tense and awkward and the amount posting from my flist isn't as active as before. Hell, it feels weird even to me and uncomfortable since this all went down and I wasn't a part of it except of knowing someone who was affected by it.

For the feed, I didn't know how that worked but since I know now, I still friended ya anyways just in case I can't find an actual feed to this journal if someone made one.

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[info]maxxim_huzzah
2007-08-06 07:48 (link)
It shocked the hell out of me when I heard your LJ had been deleted. Thank you for clarifying the details concerning what actually happened. I hope things are working out for you in RL, LJ's actions over this have been unbelieveable.

I really enjoy your art in the fandoms we share or don't share. I hope you don't mind my friending you here as well.

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[info]okaasan59
2007-08-06 09:35 (link)
I just feel sad--sort of like I'm back in junior high and one of my good friends has to move to a school across town. I still get to visit but it isn't the same. :-(

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[info]ponderosa121
2007-08-06 10:10 (link)
It's feelings like that which are making me wonder why 6A is so adamant about not taking a stand and dicking its users around. They have such a precedent for community and loyalty and are just willing to throw that out the window for fear of community standards and protecting children when according to their stats, the bulk of their users are over 18. I believe that ultimately this a good thing, though.

I'd love to see better protocols come out of this in any way, whether that's a more clear TOS or a step forward in blogging for fandomers.

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[info]ladymeta
2007-08-06 11:11 (link)
Oh Pond. I've always been a fan of your work, even before I met you at yaoicon. I still have that folder of Nightcrawler/Matrix Twins/PotC art you kept for me. (and in some cases, made for me)

I was utterly shocked when your name dissapeared from my flist, and I'm glad to see that you're still 'out here' blogging.

And as for Fandom, I'm glad we're all sticking together, regardless of which fen we stem from, and I only hope that LJ/6a manages to take the time to realise the error of their ways.

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[info]spae
2007-08-06 11:24 (link)
I tried to stay ignorantof the wank going on at lj this time - last time I locked my lj and moved lock, stock here - not that I am in any way well known, but anyway ... *rambles* ... but curiosity got the better of me, and upon seeing the comments at firefox news I was stunned to see your name in the frame. Not that you don't create perfectly smashing art which straddles the age 'barrier' as it were, but because you are so well known and prolific ... it saddened me, I guess. I am sad for lj - because it is run by pricks without vision and they are losing more people than they think they have - but I am glad you are not as upset about this as I would imagine you to be. *goes off to change links of recs to ponderosa's art*

I'll be interested to see what comes of your discussion on creating a place for fandom. I've never paid for a journal site yet, but still contribute to a lotr site that I think is well managed and fair ... if (a multi-fandom) one was found/created that would cater for the adult sector without compromise (even if that was merely a section within it), I could probably be persuaded to use some of my student loan for a good cause ;)

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TOTALLY AND ROYALLY PISSED
[info]dracosbabe
2007-08-06 13:45 (link)
How dare they got rid of one of the most fantastic and tallented artist in that crappy site. I was totally pissed when I found out what they did to you is not fair and I honestly think thay are over reacting in some matters LJ is so obsess by this whole child pornography crap that they are missing the whole point of what ART IS

I'm glad I found you here because I really love your work you have done nothing wrong and know that there are people out there that enjoy your work

I would love to be your friend
luv
dracosbabe

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[info]ljcygnet
2007-08-07 11:59 (link)
Thanks for the clarification, Ponderosa.

Leva Cygnet
leva@firefox.org

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